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WD16H engine and frame numbers

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Looking at the various lists available, it seems that there are gaps in the numbers known versus the numbers expected. One way to try to fill these gaps is by making an inventory of all existing numbers. This wil inevitably be an incomplete inventory (many bikes lost, not everybody responding etc) , but it will hopefully give some insight in the numbers. 

The W numbers are the original WD16H War Department numbers from late October 1939 onwards. Prewar military bikes had numbers without the prefix in line with civil bikes. Civil M/C's did not have matching numbers.  
Initially, spare frames and engines were numbered in line with the ordered M/C's. On later contracts it is not clear if the spare Frame numbers were consequetive with the contract M/C's. Frequently found are engines with an AS prefix.
 These are Army Spare engines. The number of frames (and sometimes engines) found without the W may however be an indication that the correct numbering of spare/replacement frames  might not have been so rigorously followed. It may also indicate to a number of parts made but never used for any bikes, dumped on the market after the war.  

Dating the bikes based on the contract numbers is a tricky issue. Bikes made on a contract date in one year could very well have been delivered the next year. I added the most likely manufacturing year without pretending to know it exactly!

Through the years, many frames have had either a rash or some other dermatological disease. Many frames are showing a variety of numbers on various positions. All the result of attempts to give it another identity by either official entities or owners fitting a frame to the paperwork they have.
The
only valid position for a Norton applied frame number is on the left hand front petrol tank frame lug casting. Engine number is found on the left top corner of the left crankcase half, see pictures below. Also found on many engines is what is believed to be a Quality control stamp consisting of a broad arrow over an M and with a number underneath. On all engines, bore and stroke are given at the right hand upper corner.


           

Headstock frame casting numbers are found at the left, aft side on the steering head, saddle casting number is found on the left-hand side below the saddle. I also have found different casting numbers on steering head and saddle casting. If anyone has these numbers, please add them.
Many petrol tanks have individual numbers at the bottom, front forks have individual numbers at front lower cross brace. Gearboxes also have an identifying serial number, but they can not be used for dating a bike.

Finally, adding the gearbox casting and serial number might give some info as well. I will add numbers to additional lists if it is useful.  

If you want to help unravel the past, please send me your frame and engine numbers (and preferably the others as well).
If you want to have your bike on the website, send a picture.
I will only add bikes to the website after the owner has given his written consent unless its a museum piece or advertised for sale!

Rob

(WD)16H Motorcycles

 

Engines and Frames

  Owner / picture Country Year Frame number Year Engine number

Remarks 

Click to enlarge              
Yoram Binur Israel 1935 60313 1943 W84457  
Henri Dopierala USA 1937 82922 1938 87579 Found in Egypt, military spec bike sent to civilian agent in 1937.
  Mike Rodey ? 1938 87055 1938 84056  
Kostas Tsochas Greece 1939 96146 1940 W20401 India Stores Dept. bike, 1938 model 16H !
Rob Hall Canada 1938 96503 1938 88987 India Stores Dept
Morten Hegle Norway 1939 102583 1939 93785 Frame and engine still fitting! Most original combination!!
Ken McIntosh New Zealand 1939 103510 ?? AS18962  
Jorge Torres Spain 1939 105007   W331199 not original engine number.
Vince France 1939 106420 1942 W71706  
Bernard Ivany Canada 1939?? 125339 1939 97317 Frame number does not fit in any published range.
For sale Netley Marsh Sept 2007 France/England 1939 W1231 1939 W1231 Quite original for most parts!!
Rinco Roos Holland 1939 W1532 1940 W7251  
G.H.  Hughes Wales 1939 W1742 1939 W1742 Picture from the "classic motorcycle" magazine August 1986
John Leake England 1939 (W)1821 1940 W21329 W not legible on frame
  Brian Walker? England 1939 W3054 1940 W26001 Aug 2011 for sale Andy Tiernan
Bart Bousery Belgium 1939 (W)3608 1940 (W)29407 W not given
Rick Payne Belgium 1939 W4216 1939 W4187  
Morten Hegle Norway 1940 W6569 1940 W6569  
Hinrik Steinsson Iceland 1940 W7497   62366  
Hugh Scott England 1940 W7751 1940 W7751  
Thierry Simon France 1940 W7931 1940 W7931 Quite complete with original parts.
Jean Franšois LoffrÚdo France 1940 W8141 1940 W8141  
Jakob Oud Holland 1940 W8343 ?? W1560/W79321 Later number stamped over early number
Tony Gardiner England 1940 W8621 1940 W16202  
Jork Zijlstra Holland 1940 W10505 1941 W45646  
Rob Elliot Australia 1940 W12315 ?? AS6937 * * has also original engine
Samuel Cormier USA 1940 W16131 ?? removed  
Jeremy Tobin England 1940 W17154 1943 67565 no W on engine
Anthony Lawrence England 1940 W17545 1940 W38186  
Barry Musson England   W18141   W73872  
Yoram Binur Israel 1940 W18868 1940 W22997 or W89660  
Hans Albers Holland 1940 W19090 1940 W8474  
Henrie Groeneveld Holland 1940 W19243 1945 W93058  
Kostas Tsochas Greece 1940 W19518 1940 W19518  
Henrie Groeneveld Holland 1940 W19957? ?? AS16740 (W35643 on right hand crankcase half!)
Clive Micallef Malta 1940 W20023 1940 W16703  
Ron Pier England 1940 W20330 1943 W83245  
Farhan Tehrani USA 1940 21602 1940 W14746 owner not certain ??
Bernard Ivany Canada 1940 W21651 1940 W8388  
Vßclav Komarek Czech Republic 1940 W21806 1943/44 W86958  
Chris Deguara Malta 1940 22449 1940 W14757 RAF contract
E bay Sept 2006 England 1940 W23281 ? 7753  
Pete de Jonge Australia 1940/41 (W)24261 ? AS36452 no W on frame
Francis Mckevitt England 1940 (W)26206 1942 W68122 no W on frame
Tony Pegg England 1940 W27007 1940 W20911  
Gerard van de Vegt Holland 1940 (W)27462 1944 W91029 no W on frame
Mick Holmes England 1940 W27680 1940 W27680  
Zane Steers England 1940 W28902 ?? AS16417  
Valantis Pitharoulis Crete 1940 W28989 1940 W27303  
Al Godfrey England 1940 W29045 1940 W29045  
Jan Dekkers Belgium 1940 W29657 1941 W30028  
  Scotland 1940 W29995 1940 W10252  
Mick Robinson England 1940? (Wx)9830 ?? 16913 Frame number uncertain
G÷ran Skoglund Sweden 1941 W30152 ?? 21680?? 21680 not genuine Norton number?
Bram Ockhuizen Holland 1941 W30937 1941 W30937  
Ronnie Dens Belgium 1941 W31722 1939 W3069  
Peter  Schraven Holland 1941 W31929 1939 93803  
Drew Broach England 1941 (W)32832 ?? None No W on frame
John van Zuilen Holland 1941 N(W)32783 1941 W29960  
Stuart Cameron Australia 1941 W33776 1941 S3342  
John Dutch England 1941 W33863 1942 W75211* * restamped W33863
E bay August 2006 England 1941 W35089   W12999/W2962 Project
Klaas Doornbos Holland 1941 W35410 ?? ??  
Oscar Herijgers Holland 1941 (W)36102 ?? AS16804 W on frame not found
Andrew Jarret Australia 1941 W36006 ?? AS19537  
Pat Gooze Australia 1941 W36103 1940 W36103  
NVT Woerden 2009 Holland 1941 W36199 1941 W36199  
Steve Madden England 1941 W37629 1942 W47031  
Wayne Hamilton USA 1941 W3X1XX 194? 55324 Number on engine seems not original
for sale internet Holland 1941 (W)38353 1945 W92300 W on frame not mentioned
Clive Sammut Malta 1941 W39308 1941 W39308  
Benjamin Cameron Canada 1941 W41379 1944 W84360  
Jan Koutnř Czech Republic 1941 W41476 1941 W45190  
Boudewijn van Beelen Holland 1941 W41561 1942 W79806  
Andrew Mansell Northern Ireland 1941 W42620 ?? 35390 Engine number on blank crankcase right hand upper corner
Philip Tober Germany 1941 W42625 1940 W10932  
Brian Hilvety USA 1941 W44484 1941 W44484  
National Motorcycle museum Beaulieu England 1941 W45850 1940 W21455  
Bob Hayton New Zealand 1941 W46059 1940 W38940  
Pat Milward Australia 1942 W47332 1942 W47332  
Dave Roberts France 1942 W47518 1943 W65438  
Roger Deadman England 1942 W47834 1943 W72963  
Roger Deadman England 1942 W48344 1943 W78387  
Joseph Lanni England 1942 W48883 1939 W2570  
Charles White ?? 1942 W51970 1942 W35111  
Guerino Gino Antinucci   Italy 1942 (W)55086 1942 W68310 W on frame not mentioned
Jean Pierre Beaufays Belgium 1942/43 W56476 or 64476 1940 W6035  
      W66583   W91709  
Marvin Camilleri Malta 1943 W60805 1939 96964 Genuine prewar engine!
Alan Bullock England 1943 W60863 1943 W79120 with rebuilt engine. Found with Eng W19176
Jeremy Atkinson     W63886   W67794  
Ebay sept 2009 England 1943 W66792 1943 W78838  
Dave Graham England 1943 W66873 1940 W8009  
Ken Alp England 1943 W68041 1943 W68041 incl.  fitting contract plate!
E -bay   ?? ?? 1943 W68171 for sale on E bay Aug 2005
Gunnar Petursson Iceland 1943 W68989   none Engine  without number!
Derek Ambler England 1943 W69222 1944 W92134 Engine number originality suspicious
Wim de Ruiter Holland 1943 W69987 1943 W67030  
Rob van den Brink Holland 1943 W70056 1944 W91258  
David Yeats England 1943 W70080 1943 W70080  
Jenny Cook England 1943 W70228 1941 W32614  
Carlo Gramsher Holland   ?? 1943 W70325  
Wijnand Nijs Holland 1943 (W)70326 ?? ?? W on frame not legible
Brad Pecotich Australia 1943 W70876 1943 W70876 ex Karl Brandon-Higgs
Bo Enefjord Sweden 1943 W71456 ?? AS21442  
Andrew Beute Holland ?? ?? 1943 W71556           
Usman Syarif Indonesia 1943 W73771 1943 W73771  
Paul Stevens Indonesia 1943 W74492 1941 W36766  
e bay May 2007 England 1943 W76253 1943 W76253  
Brian Wood England ?? ?? 1943 W76725 Post war no 85 - WB - 28 on revision plate in toolbox
  Keith Harris England 1943 (W)77402 1943 W77402  
P Swart Holland 1943 (W)78103 1942 W47022 W on frame not legible (ex Rinco Roos)
Kees Koppelman Holland 1943 W78242 1940 (W)18578  
Jilles-Sicco van Dijk Holland 1943 W78316 1940 W15737  
Hans van der Putten Holland 1943 W79337 1940 W9153  
Martin Johansson Sweden 1940 W79858 1940 W4760  
Carel de Groen Holland 1943 W81539 1943 W81539  
Francis Mckevitt England 1943 W81397 1943 W70287 also has  1947 gearbox and engine B2 12516  
Fred Baker New Zealand 1943 W81474 1941 W32728 contract plate 14498
??? Austria 1943 (W)81562 ?? AS16689 W on frame  not legible
Aad van den Boogaard Holland 1943 W81291 1944 W84368  
Kňre Indr°y Norway 1943 W81504 1944 W85036  
Patrick Fransen Belgium 1943 W81941 1940 W33941 (frame might also be W91941?)
Paul van Trigt Holland 1943/44 W82151 1944 W82476  
Nico van de Beek Holland 1944 W82732 1944 W84267 Bike not existing anymore
Al Porter USA 1944 (W)83155 1943 W83155  
Johan Leenders Belgium 1944 W84597 1944 W91268  
Mats Jonnson Sweden 1944 W84873 1944 W84873  
Rob de Bas Holland 1944 W84817 1940 W17426  
Paul Jones England 1944 W84881 1944 W88834  
Jan ěien Norway 1944 (W)84903 1944 W84903 W on frame not legible
Hňkon B° Norway 1944 W84956 1944 W84956  
Paul Gooch England 1944 W85051 1944 W85051  
Stein Roger H°iberg Norway 1944 W85096 1944 W85096  
Michael Roberts Canada 1944 W85505 1944 W85528  
Glen Pedersen Canada 1944 W85601 1944 W85601  
Steven Bell Canada 1944 W85690 1944 W85690 under restoration to military trim
Renato Paganini Italy 1944 W85695 1944 W85695  
Amit Rabinovich Israel 1944 W86300 1944 W86300  
Neil Roberts  England 1944 W86529 1942 W61621  
Ronald Eijgermans Holland 1944 W86677 1943 W81273  
Nico van de Beek Holland 1944 W86763 ?? 999?  
Ian Verrinder England 1944 W86804 ?? 83523 No W on engine may be prewar.
Marco Zelano Germany 1944 W86873 1944 76756  
Monica Baan Holland 1944 (W)87187 1944 W84126 W on frame not legible
Michel van Dijk Norway 1944 W87423 1944 W87423  
Tim Saywell Indonesia 1944 W88410 1944 W88410 Offers his help to find parts in Indonesia!
Leo Schuil Holland 1944 W88639   ??  
Iain Brown New Zealand 1944 W88183 1941 W42230  
Arnold Hoekmeijer Holland 1944 89374 ?? 20611 W not ligible
Andy Doraiswamy   1944/45 W90057 1944/45 W90057  
Helmut Petermann Germany 1944/45 W90714 1944/45 W91281 (petrol tank 91282!)
MagnusNystrom Sweden 1944/45 (W)90850 1944/45 W91338  
Ian Richards (ex Harold Jones) England 1944/45 W91103 1944 W85249  
Audun Brede Norway 1944/45 W91186 1944/45 W91186  
Patrick Gerritsen Norway 1944/45 W91383 1944/45 W91383  
Stein Roger H°iberg Norway 1944/45 W91401 1939 W3885  
Ketil Svendsen Norway 1944/45 W91404 1944/45 W91404  
Bartosz Kowalik Poland 1944/45 W91354 1944/45 W91354  
Sven Vosselman Holland ?? ?? 1944/45 W91562 ex Alfred de Vries
Franc Istace Belgium 1944/45 W91558 1944/45 W91765  
Geoff Gatrell England   W92099   AS19922  
Svenn Kjetil Ryen Norway 1945 W92503 1945 W92503  
Maciej Sosnowski Poland 1945 W92525 1945 W92425 Found in Norway, still census number for W92425 under the paint of the petrol tank!
Kristoffer Krings Danmark 1945 W92756 1944 W86086  
Rune Sundt Norway 1945 W92761 1945 W92761  
Arnfinn Berget Norway 1945 W92774 1945 W92774  
ebay Feb 2009  and Oct 2009 England 1945 W92817 1945 W92817  
Coren Said Malta 1945 W92891 1945 W92891  
Michel Clements Holland 1945 W92964 ?? 025677  
Henk Minne Holland 1945 W93368 ?? ?? engine cut open to show internals 
Lex Schmidt/Tibo van de Zand Holland 1945 W93370 1941 W32558  
Jacques Gramser Holland 1945 W93477 ?? ??  
Pieter van Engelen Holland 1945 W93512 1942 W74397  
Rob van Meel Holland 1945 W93676 1940 W17696 Built up to represent 1940 machine
Martin Penman England 1945 (W)93697 ?? AS20787  
Beaulieu 2005 England 1945 W93922 1945 W93922 civilianised
Kostas Harvatis Greece ?? E352? 1945 W93810 S5161 contract plate
Marvin Camilleri Malta 1945 W93817 1943 (W)61780  
Thomas Carey Switzerland 1945 W94177 1940 W41100 under restoration
???????? USA 1945 W94477 1945 W94556 For sale March 2006 in Australia, Dec 2013 in Las Vegas 
Alfredo Trevisan Switzerland 1945 W96058 1945 W96058  
Allen Cole ?? England ?? ?? ?? ??  
Harry Wiggers Holland ?? ?? ?? ??  
Sven Vosselman Holland ? 4A20883A 1944/45 W91089 Sidecar X2385
Arie Hamers Holland ?? ?? ?? ?? All numbers messed up and not legible
Kees Koren Holland ?? JLAA005CH 1942 42626      (W-47151 on reg. docs) Mysterious frame number
Wil Kuijpers Holland ?? ??   ??  
Enrico Barbaglia ?? ??        
Timothy A Nitz USA ?? ?? ?? ??  
Peter Catsigiannis Greece ?? ?? ?? ??  
Beaulieu 2005 England ?? ?? 1944 W89328  
INR 2005 Belgium (Mon) Belgium ?? ?? 1942 W62844 WD frame

Engines

  Alfred de Vries Holland     1939 98018  
  Rik Payne Belgium

 

    N01204 Stamped over original number
               
  Rik Payne Belgium

 

  1940 W2962  
  Magnus Nystrom Sweden     1940 W5721  
  Jan Kerckhof Belgium     1940 W7110  
  Rob van den Brink Holland     1940 8837  Timing chain case broken off
  Philip Tober Germany     1940 W9287 case dated 11-3-1940
  Rob Elliot Australia     1940 W12315  
  Arnold Hoekmeijer Holland     1940 W14065 Cranckcase and flywheels only 
  Roger Deadman England     1940 W17434  
  Kees Koren Holland     1940 18688  
  Francis Mckevitt England     ???? AS18591  
  Hans vd Putten Holland     ???? AS20473  
  Rob van den Brink Holland     ???? AS21763  
  Alan Bullock England     1940 W19176  
  Nico van de Beek Holland     1940 21625  
  Kees Koren Holland     1940 21705  
  Hans vd Putten Holland     1940 W21189  
  Jan Kerckhof Belgium     1940 (W)21871  
  Netley Marsh 2005       1940 W23112  
  E bay March 2006 England ??   1940 W26688 Frame fitted but not identified
  Nico van de Beek Holland     1940 W29538  
  E bay August 2006 Australia     1941 W30013 Carnkcase only
  Steve Madden England     1941 W31307  
  Bob Davis Australia     1941 W33409  
  Thierry Simon France     1941 W33440  
  Rick Payne Belgium     1941 W33865  
  Ian Verrinder England     1941 W34939  
  Bob Davis Australia     1941 W38144  
  Hans vd Putten Holland     1941 W38864  
  Benjamin Cameron Canada       W41379 Fake number
  Hans vd Putten Holland       W44294  
  ebay Aug 2006 England       W46466  
  Jan Kerckhof Belgium       (W)69205  
  Roger Deadman England     1943 W69726  
  ebay August 2006 England       W72783  
  ebay April 2006 Germany       W72896 casings and flywheels
  Francis Mckevitt England     ????? 73046 Spare engine?
  Vince  in Paris France     1943 W73676  
  Jan Kerckhof Belgium       W78961  
  Hans vd Putten Holland     1943 W79883  
  Rob van den Brink Holland     1943 W81056  
  Hans vd Putten Holland     ??? W84055  
  Netley Marsh 2005       1944 W84079 in mystery frame
  Benjamin Cameron Canada     1944 W84360  
  Stein Roger H°iberg Norway     1944 W85095  
  Jan Dekkers Belgium     1944 W86719  
  ebay Nov 2007 Germany     1944 W88201  
  Hans vd Putten Holland     ??? W89314  
  Stein Roger H°iberg Norway     1945 W91206  
  Johan Leenders Belgium     1945 W91268  
  Stein Roger H°iberg Norway     1945 W91339  
  Stein Roger H°iberg Norway     1945 W91392  
  Sven Ketyl Ryen Norway     1945 W91412  
  Jan Kerckhof Belgium     1945 W92206  
  ?? Norway     1945 W92450  
  Rob van den Brink Holland     1945 W93054  
  Arnold Hoekmeijer Holland     1945 93423  
  Arnold Hoekmeijer Holland     1945 W93685  
  ??? Australia     1945 W94273  
  Hans van der Putten Holland     1945 W96748  
  Pieter van Engelen Holland     19    
  Vehikel autojumble, various dates Holland       W73135, 80952, 57407,W93876, W62622
 Cranckcase and flywheels only 

Frames

               
  Stein Roger H°iberg Norway 1939 104761      
  Rob van den Brink Holland 1939 105897     Minus front tank lugs, being restored.
  e bay Jan 2006 England 1940 W8612      
  Peter Roydhouse England 1940 W14462     sold off to ??
  Alex Hutcheson Scotland 1940 W17184      
  Rob van den Brink Holland 1942 W61249     only front down tube and headstock
  Hans vd Putten Holland   73805     In process of being rebuilt
  Nico van de Beek Holland 1943 W82011      
  Stein Roger H°iberg Norway 1945 W91424      

 

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